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SPOILER ALERT! This post contains details from the sixth episode of Marvel Studios’ Agatha All Along.
Agatha All Along viewers have a lot more answers than they did two weeks ago, but there’s still plenty left to come as Agatha (Kathryn Hahn) and Billy (Joe Locke) continue down the Witches Road together.
Episode 6, which dropped Wednesday, finally reveals some of Billy’s backstory and his motivations for seeking out Agatha and traversing the Road. He takes over the body of William Kaplan as his soul is escaping Westview and William and his parents are involved in a horrific car crash. Once he wakes up, he doesn’t have much of a recollection of who he is, or what is going on — and he sets out on a mission to find out. More on the events of the episode here.
So, when his blue magic flew from his fingertips at the end of Episode 5, it didn’t just confirm to audiences that Joe Locke’s mysterious teenage character was, in fact, Wanda Maximoff’s son Wiccan. It confirmed Billy’s own deep, dark suspicions as well.
“It’s only then that he fully understands the Billy Maximoff piece and embraces it. I think I would imagine, this is me and my interpretation, it’s been scary up to that point, and also a little bit like when you’re afraid of believing even something good and big about yourself,” Agatha All Along creator Jac Schaeffer told Deadline. “Am I talented? Am I special? I don’t know. Am I capable of good things or really terrible things? I don’t know.”
Even though it seems like their interests are more at odds than ever, Agatha and Billy have agreed to stick together to get to the end of the Road. After all, Billy still wants to find his brother.
Schaeffer spoke with Deadline about the implications of Episode 6 and what’s still to come down the Witches Road.
DEADLINE: So what came first? The idea for this series, or the idea of introducing Wiccan into the MCU?
JAC SCHAEFFER: So my early idea was I wanted some sort of a goth teen character, or a group of goth teens. I love The Craft the movie, and I really liked the idea of this ancient witch coming in contact with younger witches. I feel that Agatha, at her best, is a mentor. So I was looking for that relationship. It was executive producer Mary Livanos, who came up with the idea of Billy for that role. Then, once we were into it, of okay, it’s going to be Billy, how do we do that? What do we do? Those specific conversations, with Marvel especially, I don’t remember a lot of detail to them. I mostly remember being in the writers room and trying to figure out who this young man is and how we can best serve him. The structure that we came up with, where he is this eager fanboy who loves witchcraft and is studying at the feet of these women, we loved front loading with that, but it felt thin and disingenuous to have that be all there is. So it was so fun to be able to bake it so that his complexity and darkness and the texture of him would detonate at the midpoint.
DEADLINE: That is especially interesting because it feels perfectly natural to me that you, after having done WandaVision, would be the one to introduce her son formally to the universe.
SCHAEFFER: I know it sort of feels like it should be self evident. I mean, we an idea that we were locked on before the writer’s room. So it was early, but in my early ideating for Agatha All Along, it was so important to me that it’d be her story…but once that piece clicked in, it did feel right.
DEADLINE: So in this episode, we learn more of Billy’s backstory, and this idea that he is living with normal parents, that origin story comes from the comics, but how did you really start to figure out the way you’d introduce him and make that origin story make sense in this series?
SCHAEFFER: So the comic lore, the story that’s in the comics, is bananas. It’s very complicated, and I found it hard to parse. I found it hard to make sense of, but the pieces that we were committed to were his Jewishness, [which] was very important. The idea that the Kaplans were non-superhero folk, but very good people and good parents. We were really committed to that from the very beginning. It was never anything other than that. We were all so excited for the Kaplans, for casting them, for seeing them on screen, for seeing a loving family without the kind of chaos of the superhero world. We were just psyched about it, and especially on the heels of WandaVision, which had a very arch portrayal of domestic life. It was a performance of, ‘This is what like a happy, normal, regular, nuclear family looks like.’ We wanted the Kaplans to actually be that. So that was really important.
Then what we wanted to do was carry forward what we established in WandaVision, but kind of run it through the filter of the comics. So, this question of, like, ‘What happened to Billy, and how can we get him into a different body?’ I was like, ‘Well, literally, there was this big hex, and then what happened when the hex went away? Did he float up and like, would he find the nearest body? So then, what body?’ That’s the body of William Kaplan from the comics. But what’s the situation that would make that easy? Our writer, Peter Cameron, came up with this idea of a car accident that felt so visceral and exciting and cinematic. The pieces fell into place in that way. But, it was important to us that we streamline what was in the comics.
DEADLINE: It’s funny that you mention how convoluted the twins’ story is, because I have had this experience several times with this series where I’ve tried to explain the comic lore behind something and you can start to see their eyes glaze over eventually.
SCHAEFFER: I think that’s one of the joys of this kind of work, is you have a very, very rich text, but the TV show is different than the comics. So what is the version that works well in the TV show?
DEADLINE: I loved seeing Evan Peters in this episode. What were those conversations like to bring him back, and is this the end of Ralph Bohner?
SCHAEFFEER: I mean, if we’re up to me, Evan Peters as Ralph Bohner would be in [everything]. I had a list of prerequisites for this show, and I’ve been talking about them a lot…and I’m always like, ‘Well, you know, we needed music, and we needed hair, makeup, wardrobe. These are the things that we need. We’re defining witchcraft in the MCU.’ The thing that I couldn’t say was Evan Peters. It always included Evan Peters, no matter what. My document for the writers was like, ‘Here’s Agatha and here’s Billy and here’s what we’re doing, and also Evan Peters.’ I can’t remember how we came up with the idea that he would provide this exposition dump, but I’m so proud of us, because Evan is so captivating and it is such a magic trick, literally, that he is able to to handle so much exposition for us and make all of it entertaining.
In this world, I’m always interested in the regular humans experience. Of course, the superheroes are thrilling and exciting, but that’s why I think I wanted to bring the Westview residents back. Because I’m like, ‘What is the experience of the average Joe and the average Joanne? What is that, to behold all of this insanity?’ So to kind of bring him back as somebody who truly suffered during the events of WandaVision, and have that be our hook into this character and Evan’s hook into this character, was really fun, and he’s just one of the few actors that can make that really work.
DEADLINE: Another one of my favorite scenes in this episode is the interrogation scene. Kathryn Hahn is so hilarious. What made you want to revisit that scene and show what actually happened?
SCHAEFFER: So I think we could have done the show without ever answering that question of, ‘What was it really like?’ But it just felt like a missed opportunity, especially because it was a higher burden than I like on the audience to fill in the gaps of what it looked like when she was operating as Detective Agnes. So it felt right. It felt a little bit like we owed it to the audience, and then once we were doing it, it was like, ‘Well, this is hilarious.’ It’s an opportunity to let um Kathryn, the comedian, go hog wild, because with Agnes of Westview in the pilot, it’s quite a sophisticated performance. There are moments where it gets a little bit broad, but it’s quite elegant. So to do the version that is, like, to the wall, that’s dialed to 11, was just too irresistible. Also it just was such a priority with Episode 6 to be so firmly in Billy’s POV, and so it seemed really beneficial to be able to run it all the way through what his experience was when he first encounters her.
DEADLINE: Going off that last part, we see in this episode that William/Billy has encountered all of the other coven witches before. Can you tell me about that?
SCHAEFFER: So that element is in support of this notion, this rule, that we establish in our MCU world of witches that a coven is drawn together by mysterious forces of fate. So we loved the idea that their paths had crossed before The Road adventure. It’s specific. So, Lilia doesn’t remember him, because she’s the one who cast the sigil. So the sigil works on her. Billy doesn’t remember Lilia, because he was William Kaplan at that time, so he wouldn’t remember her. Alice doesn’t actually see Billy, because he’s covered in blood and in the the car, so she doesn’t see his face. Then Jen, he knows who Jen is because of his familiarity with her products. So it’s less about future stuff, and more this Coven was meant to be.
DEADLINE: So, is that moment in the house in Westview the first time that he encounters Agatha?
SCHAEFFER: I mean, they’ve certainly crossed paths in WandaVision. I would say, one of the things that’s been really fun and satisfying in working on WandaVision and this show is the opportunity to sort of fill in the gaps in what’s come before. I can’t really say more about that.
DEADLINE: Okay, so back to the sigil. When William pulls the sigil out of his pocket, he clearly doesn’t know what it is. But, it seems like even Billy is unsure of what it really is when he is, since he doesn’t even know he has a sigil on him when he first meets the coven. At the end of this episode, he breaks it. Can you talk more about that? Is there a moment where he realizes that’s the sigil?
SCHAEFFER: Like so many things in the show, it’s not always one black and white thing. I think the reason that you feel that throughout the show is, I think that’s what personal growth is like. I don’t think it’s always like, you’re like, ‘This is the moment where I’ve figured this out, or I know who I am.’ So that’s why, when we revisit the moment of the sigil in Agatha’s house, he says William Kaplan first, and then he says Billy Maximoff, because it’s like a deep, dark, scary suspicion that he’s Billy Maximoff, and he doesn’t know for sure. It’s only after his power manifests for the first time — those blasties are the first time he’s ever had that capacity. It’s only then that he fully understands the Billy Maximoff piece and embraces it. I think I would imagine, this is me and my interpretation, it’s been scary up to that point, and also a little bit like when you’re afraid of believing even something good and big about yourself. Am I talented? Am I special? I don’t know. Am I capable of good things or really terrible things? I don’t know. So that, to me, is, when it breaks, it’s no longer needed, because he has stepped into an understanding.
DEADLINE: So, that and his reluctant admission in the episode that he isn’t too sure how to wield his magic sort of confirm to me that he didn’t necessarily have cruel intentions with throwing the rest of the coven off the Road. Or, at least, he didn’t consciously.
SCHAEFFER: Yeah. I mean, I think that these moments like Agatha siphoning Alice’s power, Wanda creating the hex, these moments of big power…I don’t like being like, ‘They have no control, and the power is controlling them,’ but I do think it’s always a discussion, and I think that’s what big feelings are, to me. The big power expressions are just metaphors for big feelings, so to answer your specific question about him blasting them off the Road, there will be more unpacking of that in later episodes. But what I do hope is clear from Episode 6, is that he does not have a handle on his power. From both the blasting to the telepathy, that is not something that he can actively control. He can’t, at this point, seem to actively control any part of it, which makes him the perfect person to be with Agatha. And also, it’s the scariest situation.
DEADLINE: That is an interesting way of looking at it, and it also makes me wonder how I would handle myself when I am feeling certain ways, if I had those abilities.
SCHAEFFER: My gosh, sometimes in crafting these narratives, we run into the problem of, if a character is powerful, it’s like, ‘Well, why don’t they just use their their power all the time? This can just be solved with their power.’ And my response to that is always like, ‘Oh my God. These are huge abilities.’ If I had these huge abilities, I wouldn’t just use them all the time. It would be so fraught all of the time.
DEADLINE: We haven’t seen Rio since the end of the last trial, before Billy went full Maximoff. Is she coming back? Where is she?
SCHAEFFER: We’re super not done with Rio. Everybody can relax. Our girl’s coming back.
DEADLINE: And also Jen and Lilia, I hope we’ll get more details on what happened with them. Why weren’t they climbing out of the mud along with Agatha?
SCHAEFFER: I mean, I would love to be like, ‘Wait and see,’ but everyone’s seen trailers, so…
DEADLINE: Billy and Agatha are now kind of treating each other as a means to an end again, almost like ‘Ugh, okay fine, let’s keep working together.’ But something tells me they could become actual, unlikely allies again. What’s their relationship going to look like moving forward?
SCHAEFFER: I mean, I love that you feel that. I think their relationship is so complicated, and that’s why I loved writing it. There’s a lot of The Road left. That’s what I would say about that.
DEADLINE: Billy’s origin story comes from the Young Avengers comics. People have speculated for so long about the Young Avengers. What does Billy’s MCU journey look like after Agatha All Along, and are you planning to be part of it?
SCHAEFFER: I’m not working on anything right now for Marvel, but it is my hope that there will be more for him, both because I’m such an admirer of Joe, and because I think the character is really interesting.
DEADLINE: I, of course, have to ask about Wanda. I think everyone is wondering whether she’s making an appearance in this series.
SCHAEFFER: It’s so wonderful that everyone loves her as much as they do. I mean, I feel that way about her, and so the clamoring for her is really beautiful. Lizzie [Olsen] is so extraordinary and so candescent, and everyone should see her in His Three Daughters. She’s so extraordinary in that movie. So I will just say what I always sort of say in these moments. Our players are on the board, and we are on a journey about these folks. It’s Agatha’s show, and it’s also very much Billy’s story. So there’s more left to go.
DEADLINE: In the least spoilery way, what are you most excited for audiences to see in these final episodes?
SCHAEFFER: I am excited for so much. When WandaVision dropped, the first three episodes are so much about the conceit. It’s so much about the sort of like, ‘Can you believe it? We’re doing a sitcom with these characters.’ Then tiny Twilight Zone-y moments. So that early rollout was really fun, but I just couldn’t wait for the penultimate episode of WandaVision, because I felt it really showed our deep work in the room. It really was the unpacking of Wanda’s psychology. That was the most satisfying work that we did. Lizzie was extraordinary, and all the performers were so great in it. So that was the one that I was waiting for, because it, at once, solved the mystery and got deep. I think these last three episodes, each of these episodes does that again. I’m really excited for the remainder of the show, all of it.
