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EXCLUSIVE: New York-based comedian Ashley Gavin is best known for her popular TikTok account, which currently holds more than 1.4 million followers. This summer, however, Gavin hit one of the most difficult traditional hallmarks in comedy.
She successfully mounted a buzzy show at the Edinburgh Fringe.
Gavin’s My Therapist is Dying, a hilarious yet arresting hour of narrative-driven comedy, was one of the hottest tickets at the Fringe, where it sold out. Extra shows were added and those sold out too. The show chronicles how an anxiety-ridden Gavin deals with finding out her long-time therapist has been diagnosed with cancer.
Before comedy, Gavin was a software engineer at MIT Lincoln Lab where she worked on national security projects. She went on from there to write the curriculum for the nonprofit organization Girls Who Code before ditching computers for comedy.
As a comedian, she’s been featured on Netflix is a Joke, Hulu, and Comedy Central. Her podcast We’re Having Gay Sex has a substantial following and has had guests like Jojo Siwa and comedian Hannah Berner. Gavin is also Carnival Cruise line’s first openly gay performer.
Below, Gavin speaks with us about her sold-out Fringe show, how social media fame has changed stand-up comedy, and how she evolved after being ‘canceled’ for a joke.
DEADLINE: How was your Fringe experience? Have you been before?
ASHLEY GAVIN: No, it was my first time. I went in having no idea what to expect. As an American, I know we have our own style. I don’t know much about the style in the UK. So I just tried to clear my mind, so I wouldn’t mess with my approach to the show. So everything after that was a real pleasant surprise. We sold out, which I didn’t think was possible. Edinburgh is such a great place because people will just go and see a show based on word of mouth. That’s how I went to see shows. So it was nice to just really have it be about the shows. Everything is dedicated to the art that you’re making as opposed to social media and all this other stuff.
DEADLINE: Is it rare for Americans to perform at Fringe?
GAVIN: I don’t know if it’s rare but it is within my friendship groups. I think only two or three of the traditional stand-ups I know have been.
DEADLINE: The set has such a strong narrative, which is rare for comedy in the UK. Did you notice any differences between how it landed at Fringe compared with the U.S.?
GAVIN: I’m very lucky because I got to rehearse my set. When American comedians usually go over they don’t always have a platform or an audience to rehearse their set. I got to do this set seven or eight times as a workshop over the last few years at my weekly show in New York City. I run a little weekly show here where I just work on my new material although it is probably the worst place to work on new material. There are pool tables in the back, foosball, and a fan that turns on every 15 minutes. It is not good. So some of the shows went very poorly and then occasionally when the situation was right, it worked well. I had to just keep telling myself that it would work at the Fringe.
DEADLINE: Where do you run your weekly show?
GAVIN: I love the venue. It’s called Sour Mouse on the Lower East Side. There’s a giant neon green Mouse on the building. It’s just not a great place to be talking about your dead father and your relationship with your therapist.
DEADLINE: You’re very popular on TikTok. The path forward for comedians is now much more unconventional thanks to social media. Previously people would tour the live comedy scene and then maybe graduate to a Comedy Central gig. What’s the path forward these days?
GAVIN: I feel so lucky that I started stand-up before all this happened. When I started, I just wanted to be good. Now people have to be good and also go viral. People don’t look at those steps, you know, the late-night set, the Comedy Central gig. Those were eroding when I was coming up in comedy, but we didn’t know they were eroding.
DEADLINE: So what is comedy now?
GAVIN: I think it’s like everything else happening in culture right now. We are becoming fragmented into our little bubbles and they’re becoming more and more refined. That’s another reason why the Fringe was so awesome. I just had people who came because they saw me once on the internet or saw my poster and just came. Fringe is the only remaining event that is slightly untouched by social media.
DEADLINE: During the set, I couldn’t help but think about the story as a TV show. It really has that structure. Are you working on an adaptation?
GAVIN: Let everyone know! I have a couple of irons in the fire with TV and film. It’s a crazy industry, but we hope one of them works out. For the readers that don’t know, the set is about my lifelong therapist who was diagnosed with terminal cancer during a difficult time in my life. Sometimes I see the show as a buddy flick between me and my therapist or a truer version that is a reassessment of what healing means and taking that really seriously because there’s a big fat deadline at the end of this.
DEADLINE: You were embroiled in some controversy a while back after some audience members criticized jokes you made during live shows. People were attempting to ‘cancel’ you online. How did that whole experience affect you?
GAVIN: Yeah, it was difficult. I’m not gonna lie. But after getting through it you have to learn something. If you are a good comedian, you’re learning something every time you go on stage. What I learned from that incident was that people who aren’t familiar with my work are now coming to my shows, which I never expected. That reframed my understanding of my own brand and how I introduce it to people. All you can really do as a comedian is keep on understanding who your audience is.
DEADLINE: Did the situation hurt any opportunities or gigs you had lined up?
GAVIN: No, not really.
DEADLINE: Your performance
GAVIN: I am a semi-masculine lesbian which can be a challenge in terms of pure casting, but I love acting. I’ve done a little. I’ve been lucky enough to do some small things and hopefully can do more.
DEADLINE: Comedy specials used to be these very grand events. What are they today? I know many comedians like Andrew Schultz have found great success putting their work online.
GAVIN: I put my first special on YouTube. It did well and got a million views which was super cool. Now, the special has totally changed. It’s now really short-form videos where fans can come and see your work. It’s a gift to the fans. You used to think of it as an opportunity of a lifetime, but now if you’re lucky and your special begins to pick up in the algorithm of Netflix, then it’s an opportunity to present yourself to new fans. But it’s not like back in the day when the only place you could discover Chris Rock was live. Comedy specials were how America was introduced to Chris Rock. Now it’s the total opposite. America is introduced to you online and then the special follows. So the idea of creating a groundbreaking special is way more difficult because you’re inundated with choice. And we’re in such a fractured time, so what is a groundbreaking special anymore? I don’t even know the answer to that. I don’t know that there will ever be a groundbreaking special again in the same way that Game of Thrones was the last unifying television show that we watched. It’s an interesting time for sure.
DEADLINE: You’re a queer comedian and you talk about queer experiences in your show. People would often talk about how Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock couldn’t play to certain audiences because of their content. Do you ever find it hard to perform in front of largely straight audiences?
GAVIN: I have the opposite problem. I struggle with queer audiences and I do better with straight audiences. Here lies the Ashley Gavin branding problem. I’m just gay enough to look like it’s a gay show. But I’m not that stereotypical queer comedian. I’m not that guy. You can’t truly be for everyone and be a good stand-up. It’s just not possible. You have to just try and stay true to your point of view. You want to try and invite everybody in. You mentioned two of my favorite stand-ups: Chappelle, whose recent stuff aside, which can be hard for me, and Chris Rock, both had similar problems. I mean, one of Rock’s most historic jokes, which I won’t repeat, bombed in black rooms to the point where people would threaten to beat him up. That’s sometimes how I feel about some of my gay jokes because I’m calling out some of the hypocrisy in my community. But I’m also pointing out the hypocrisy of every community because that is my job and that includes queer people. That is my job as a comedian. That’s what I’m supposed to do. I’m supposed to talk about different cultures.
I take a lot of pride in the fact that my show is for everybody and I am true to myself. And that’s what I love about Chris Rock. He made black culture interesting and accessible to white people. If I can hit that level I will be thrilled with my career. I don’t think we’ve had a gay comedian really do that. And I would love to be one of the gay comedians that reach that benchmark along with all the other incredible queer comics working right now.
