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Earlier this month, UTA CEO Jeremy Zimmer stated that the TV and film business has to allow creators to be a “little more daring” in their work because “it’s gotten a bit repetitive”.
Zimmer was echoing comments from one of his agency’s hottest new clients, Baby Reindeer creator and star Richard Gadd, who proclaimed from the Emmys stage that “no slump was ever broken without a willingness to take risks”.
This is a message that is being touted across the agency, including by Allan Haldeman and Dan Erlij, partners and co-heads of the agency’s TV literary division.
Erlij said that it was encouraging that a show like Baby Reindeer could clean up at the Emmys. “I think that larger spirit of people really being excited about original, new ideas, being recognized, finding an audience and being validated is great,” he said.
He added that it’s important that streamers and networks give a certain amount of freedom to these creators. “Richard had to push at moments, and had to stand his ground in a way, as an artist, which is a hard thing, especially when it’s your first show and you’re worried, trying to make sure that it goes forward, and people are telling you that if you don’t make certain changes, maybe something won’t happen. That’s the thing that you want to see these networks do, if you believe in an artist and if you believe in what they’re doing, give them the freedom to do it. I think that’s really important,” he said.
Haldeman highlighted the recent awards success of shows such as Succession, Fleabag, Severance, Yellowjackets, The Bear and Hacks and how important it is to find a “true believer on the buy side”.
“Those are the [shows] that people have to take chances on. Those are the things that we want to push out in the world. Those are the things that are the successes, and they shouldn’t be so hard to push, but they’re also incredibly special and hard to find too,” he added.
One of the reasons, the pair believe this can happen is that see a market that is “getting healthier” after the pandemic, the writers and actors strikes and a lot of consolidation.
“We’re having more success in the marketplace right now. The buyers are really hearing pitches, where six months ago… there was no real enthusiasm,” said Erlij. “There’s a lack of supply. All of these places that had stopped buying need to realize that they’re going to need to have a development slate that’s real. It’s the start of something, I wouldn’t call it a vibrant marketplace, but it’s definitely feels on the upswing in a way that we’re feeling positive about.”
Haldeman isn’t worried about a lack of appetite for limited series like Baby Reindeer as buyers increasingly search for returnable projects. “There’s certainly going to be beneficial economics, especially as ad buyers are coming into play, to having returning series, and the dependability of that, but while there is a differing appetite for limited series at each place, I don’t think that there’s anybody in these places that doesn’t want a brilliant show from an original artist that changes the way they’re thinking about their job from one day to the next, having heard it and had the opportunity to work on it,” he added.
STREAMING PAY MODELS
Arguably the most-talked about topic within the entertainment industry right now is a potential change to how talent and creators are paid by the streamers.
It’s clear that Netflix and Apple are reevaluating their cost-plus models, even if they don’t really want to talk about it publicly, something that agents are going to be at the center of.
Haldeman called it “new realities” being created. “We’re getting out of the old way of spending money into a new way of figuring out how to compensate people, what things should cost and taking care of our clients, making sure that what they’re doing and how they’re succeeding is being appropriately compensated,” he said. “There is the interesting joust of reconnecting compensation to productivity and success, which is in part being addressed, but not in full, and the in full part is what we’re out fighting for.”
Erlij believes streaming payment models will change and “they have to”. “The whole promise before was we’re going to have these things in perpetuity and we’re never going to have advertising so there’s no such thing as back end, we’re just going to pay you this giant front-loaded deal. Then they take away the overall deals and start adding ads and selling their shows to other streamers so there has to be ownership interest. We have a group of clients who are completely excited about the idea of being entrepreneurial and doing that if there is something on the other end of it. Because there’s real competition, and because we don’t know how many of these buyers or streamers are going to survive, I think the ones that are going to do it are going to have to be at the forefront of this. It’s our responsibility, it’s our drumbeat to say this is what has to happen,” he added.
The pair acknowledge that it’s early on in these conversations and we’ve only really seen this happen on a few film projects, but it’s clearly an ongoing discussion. There are a few examples of talent betting on themselves, such as Ben Affleck and Matt Damon’s Artist Equity, which offers profit participation, and The Morning Show star Mark Duplass betting on his team by producing YA series Penelope before shopping it to Netflix under a new model.
They believe that independent companies such as A24 and Lionsgate are able to be more entrepreneurial than the existing studios on profit participation and back-end and it’s only a matter of time before some of the streamers are willing to discuss ownership and rights. “Because now a lot of these companies are not growing for growth’s sake, but are now saying, ‘How are we going to become profitable?’, it feels that at a certain point they’re going to want to allay their risk and the best way to allay risk is have somebody own it, co-own it with you, and spend more money on it and people are willing to do that if there is a payoff,” Erlij said.
What’s somewhat funny is that a lot of the discussion around new pay models makes one think of the traditional broadcast television model with residuals and bonuses, a system that has hugely benefited the creators of hit shows.
“There was an incredible model, and it really worked well, especially for people who had a big success and hit a home run,” said Haldeman. “There was a huge technological evolution that changed the way viewers were behaving, that changed the demand from a programming point, and gave rise to services that were going to adopt a different model. But now that the business side has changed, we need to look at adopting some of the model that sustained the broadcast version of television for so long. There might be a way to adopt some of what we were doing before, to realign economics, incentives, artists, distributors, advertisers, and apply it to the new technological world we’re living in and the wild demand from the audience.”
This comes as many of the streamers are also moving into the genres of programming that broadcast TV was known for such as Max and Netflix moving into procedurals with the likes of John Wells and Carlton Cuse.
“You index in a certain way, and then you correct back the other way, we’re obviously seeing that going on creatively in both the hour and half-hour space in terms of experimenting with some old formulas and formats that were great and provide a great artistry, but I think the main point is it’s about the artists of the middle of the format. For instance, procedurals can be great, procedurals can be dry, prestige series can be great, prestige series can miss,” Haldeman added.
He stresses that there are still great opportunities in broadcast television and younger writers would love to work on the next iteration of Friends, The Office, Parks and Recreation, Modern Family or 30 Rock. “People want to work on something that’s great. There are great broadcast shows now. I would love to find the clients here who would be excited to work on an Abbott elementary,” he added.
UTA represents the creators of Hacks – Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky – a show that doesn’t feel too dissimilar to those mentioned above. Haldeman believes the show’s recent win at the Emmys, beating out favorite The Bear for the main comedy award, could provide a boost for the whole genre.
“It’s really exciting that Hacks won. I’m personally proud of the clients involved in it, it’s a really exciting moment, because there have not been a lot of surprises in the award seasons of the last couple years,” he said. “But the thing that’s great about it is that I believe that there could be a lot more funny shows. There are a lot of funny people who are really talented that can be writing on them, acting in them and producing them. I believe there is a hunger out there for it,” he added.
If streaming payment models are one of the most-talked about topics within inner circles, the wider business continues to hear that dreaded phrase – ‘Survive until ‘25’.
Haldeman says that one of the things he’s most proud of is the “resilience” of his clients.
“LA is a reactive town, things happen and all of a sudden, new norms are are adopted very quickly so the pace of things is tough to predict but the direction is not and I believe we’re heading in the [right] direction,” he said. “What I really admire in the artists we represent is standing behind what they want to do, trying to be be patient in a very difficult environment, waiting for the right opportunity or deal and not going down a road they don’t think is fair. I’ve seen a lot of resilience in the artist community and I try to take a page out of what I admire in our clients, who have chosen an uncertain profession and are in the middle of an uncertain time and are still, by and large, holding to what they came out here to do, and what they believe is fair with respect to their value.”
